Child rape and religion. “The greatest sin is not the abuse, but talking about the abuse. Kids and parents who step forward to complain are crushed.”

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Rabbi Nuchem Rosenberg, the lone whistleblower among the Satmar, a powerful Hasidic sect, who recently was the victim of a bleach attack in Williamsburg, Brooklyn. All photos by Christian Storm.

Rabbi Nuchem Rosenberg—who is 63 with a long, graying beard—recently sat down with me to explain what he described as a “child-rape assembly line” among sects of fundamentalist Jews. He cleared his throat. “I’m going to be graphic,” he said.

A member of Brooklyn’s Satmar Hasidim fundamentalist branch of Orthodox Judaism, Nuchem designs and repairs mikvahs in compliance with Torah Law. The mikvah is a ritual Jewish bathhouse used for purification. Devout Jews are required to cleanse themselves in the mikvah on a variety of occasions: women must visit following menstruation, and men have to make an appearance before the High Holidays such as Rosh Hashanah and Yom Kippur. Many of the devout also purify themselves before and after the act of sex, and before the Sabbath.

On a visit to Jerusalem in 2005, Rabbi Rosenberg entered into a mikvah in one of the holiest neighborhoods in the city, Mea She’arim. “I opened a door that entered into a schvitz,” he told me. “Vapors everywhere, I can barely see. My eyes adjust, and I see an old man, my age, long white beard, a holy-looking man, sitting in the vapors. On his lap, facing away from him, is a boy, maybe seven years old. And the old man is having anal sex with this boy.”

Rabbi Rosenberg paused, gathered himself, and went on: “This boy was speared on the man like an animal, like a pig, and the boy was saying nothing. But on his face—fear. The old man [looked at me] without any fear, as if this was common practice. He didn’t stop. I was so angry, I confronted him. He removed the boy from his penis, and I took the boy aside. I told this man, ‘It’s a sin before God, a mishkovzucher. What are you doing to this boy’s soul? You’re destroying this boy!’ He had a sponge on a stick to clean his back, and he hit me across the face with it. ‘How dare you interrupt me!’ he said. I had heard of these things for a long time, but now I had seen.”

The child sex abuse crisis in ultra-Orthodox Judaism, like that in the Catholic Church, has produced its share of shocking headlines in recent years. In New York, and in the prominent Orthodox communities of Israel and London, allegations of child molestation and rape have been rampant. The alleged abusers are schoolteachers, rabbis, fathers, uncles—figures of male authority. The victims, like those of Catholic priests, are mostly boys. Rabbi Rosenberg believes around half of young males in Brooklyn’s Hasidic community—the largest in the United States and one of the largest in the world—have been victims of sexual assault perpetrated by their elders. Ben Hirsch, director of Survivors for Justice, a Brooklyn organization that advocates for Orthodox sex abuse victims, thinks the real number is higher. “From anecdotal evidence, we’re looking at over 50 percent. It has almost become a rite of passage.”

Ultra-Orthodox Jews who speak out about these abuses are ruined and condemned to exile by their own community. Dr. Amy Neustein, a nonfundamentalist Orthodox Jewish sociologist and editor of Tempest in the Temple: Jewish Communities and Child Sex Scandals, told me the story of a series of Hasidic mothers in Brooklyn she got to know who complained that their children were being preyed on by their husbands.

In these cases, the accused men “very quickly and effectively engage the rabbis, the Orthodox politicians, and powerful Orthodox rabbis who donate handsomely to political clubs.” The goal, she told me, is “to excise the mother from the child’s life.” Rabbinical courts cast the mothers aside, and the effects are permanent. The mother is “amputated.” One woman befriended by Dr. Neustein, a music student at a college outside New York, lost contact with all six of her children, including an infant she was breastfeeding at the time of their separation.

Rabbi Rosenberg inspects a ritual purification bath, known as a mikvah. In 2005, he witnessed a young boy being raped inside a similar bath.

Seven years ago, Rabbi Rosenberg started blogging about sex abuse in his community and opened a New York City hotline to field sex abuse complaints. He has posted appeals on YouTube, appeared on CNN, and given speeches across the US, Canada, Israel, and Australia. Today, he is the lone whistleblower among the Satmar. For this he is reviled, slandered, hated, feared. He receives death threats on a regular basis. In Yiddish and Hebrew newspapers, advertisements taken out by the self-described “great rabbis and rabbinical judges of the city of New York” have denounced him as “a stumbling block for the House of Israel,” “a public rebuker and preacher of ethics” who “persists in his rebelliousness” and whose “voice has been heard among many Jewish families, especially young people in their innocence… drawn to listen to his poisonous and revolting speeches.” Leaflets distributed in Williamsburg and Borough Park, the centers of ultra-Orthodoxy in Brooklyn, display his bearded face over the body of a writhing snake. “Corrupt Informer,” reads one of the leaflets, followed by the declaration that Rabbi Rosenberg’s “name should rot in hell forever. They should cut him off from all four corners of the earth.”

When Rabbi Rosenberg wants to bathe at a mikvah in Brooklyn to purify himself, none will have him. When he wants to go to synagogue, none will have him. “He is finished in the community, butchered,” said a fellow rabbi who would only talk anonymously. “No one will look at him, and those who will talk to him, they can’t let it be known. The pressure in our community, it’s incredible.”

The powerful men—and it is worth noting that this community is regulated by men only—who govern the world of ultra-Orthodox Judaism would rather their adherents be blind in their faith, their eyes closed to the horrors Rabbi Rosenberg is exposing. Like the Catholic establishment, the rabbinate seeks to cover up the crimes, quiet the victims, protect the abusers, and deflect potential criticism of their institutional practices. Those who speak out are vilified, and the faithful learn to shut their mouths. When the father of the seven-year-old boy whom Rabbi Rosenberg rescued from the Jerusalem bathhouse showed up to collect his son, he couldn’t believe his son had been raped. Trembling, terrified, he whisked his son away to get medical help, but was still too scared to raise a formal complaint. According to Ben and Survivors for Justice, “The greatest sin is not the abuse, but talking about the abuse. Kids and parents who step forward to complain are crushed.”

As for Rabbi Rosenberg, when he voiced his concerns to the rabbinate in Israel, he was brought up on charges by the mishmeres hatznuis, the archconservative Orthodox “modesty squad,” which regulates, often through threats of violence, proper moral conduct and dress in the relations between men and women. The modesty squad is a sort of Jewish Taliban. According to Rabbi Rosenberg, the rapist he caught in the act was a member of the modesty squad, which charged him with the unconscionable offense of having previously been seen walking down a street in Jerusalem with a married woman. “But it’s OK to molest children,” he adds.

The abuse and its cover-up are symptoms of wider political dysfunction—or, more precisely, symptoms of socially disastrous political control by religious elites.

“This isn’t a problem about a few aberrant cases or an old-fashioned community reluctant to talk to police about sexual matters,” said Michael Lesher, a practicing Jew who has investigated Orthodox sex abuse and represented abuse victims. “This is about a political economy that links Orthodox Judaism with other fundamentalist creeds and with aspects of right-wing ideologies generally. It’s an economy in which genuine religious values will never really rise to the top, so long as they’re tied to the poisonous priorities that elevate status and power over the basic human needs of the most vulnerable among us.”

Michael, who is completing a book on the topic, noted that the infamous Rabbi Elior Chen, convicted in 2010 in what was arguably Israel’s worst case of serial child abuse, is still defended in public statements by leading ultra-Orthodox rabbis. Among other legal and moral crimes, the rabbi forced his victims to eat feces, claiming that this cruelty was necessary to “purify” the children he abused.

According to Ben, the ultra-Orthodox community has never been as repressive as it is today. The repression, as he describes it, stems from the burden of having too many children. Huge families are encouraged: every child born to a Hasid is seen as “a finger in the eye of Hitler.” Ben also told me that the average family size among Williamsburg Hasidim is nine, and that some families include more than 15 children.

Mikvah Israel of Boro Park, one of the many mikvahs in Brooklyn that no longer accept Rabbi Rosenberg.

Families saddled with an increasing number of children soon enter into a cycle of poverty. There is simultaneously an extreme separation of the sexes, which is unprecedented in the history of the Hasidim. There is limited general education, to the point that most men in the community are educated only to the third grade, and receive absolutely no sexual education. No secular newspapers are allowed, and internet access is forbidden. “The men in the community are undereducated by design,” Ben said. “You have a community that has been infantilized. They have been trained not to think. It’s a sort of totalitarian control.”

The rabbis, dominating an ignorant and largely poverty-stricken flock, determine the fate of every individual in the community. Nothing is done without the consent of the rabbinical establishment. A man wants to buy a new car—he goes to the rabbi for counsel. A man wants to marry—the rabbi tells him whether or not he should marry a particular bride. As for the women, they don’t get to ask the rabbi anything. Their place is beneath contempt.

Michael told me that current Orthodox leadership, accruing wealth from the tithes of subservient followers, is “drifting to the right, politically as well as religiously.” Many rabbis in New York City have taken up the banner of neoliberalism. “Every English-language Orthodox publication I know embraced Romney during the 2012 elections, decried national health insurance, blamed liberals for bribing the lower classes,” he said. “In Orthodox society, just as in America at large, the financial mismatch between the elite and the rest of us is ominously large.”

Michael also notes that the problem is not confined to the extremists. “The same patterns of victim-blaming, covering up, idealizing the rabbis so that cover-ups aren’t even acknowledged, are found all across the spectrum of Orthodoxy,” he told me. “The Orthodox left was shamefully slow to react to Rabbi Baruch Lanner’s abuse or to the similar case of Rabbi Mordechai Elon.” Rabbi Lanner, a former New Jersey yeshiva high school principal, was found guilty in 2000 of sexually abusing dozens of teenage students over the decades of his tenure. Rabbi Elon, who had publicly denounced homosexuality, was convicted last August on two counts of forcible sexual assault on a male minor, following several years of reports of his abuse of young boys.

“I have children come to me with their parents, and the blood is coming out of the anus,” Rabbi Rosenberg told me when we met. “These are zombies for life. What are we to do?”

This of course is the key question, and no answers are forthcoming. Michael holds out little hope that the situation will change. “If Orthodox institutions continue on their current trajectory,” he said, “I’d say things could get worse before they get better.”

A few weeks after our interview, Rabbi Rosenberg was walking through the Williamsburg section of Brooklyn when an unidentified man rushed up behind him, tapped him on the shoulder, and threw a cup of bleach in his face. He went to the hospital with facial burns and was temporarily blinded. Such is the measure of justice among the Satmar that a once-respected rabbi, now amputated from the community, should find himself chemically burned on a street in a neighborhood considered holy.

Later Rabbi Rosenberg told me a story of being surrounded by young boys in Williamsburg. The boys cursed him, laughed at him, threatened him, and spat at him. He wondered how many of them would end up molested.

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65 thoughts on “Child rape and religion. “The greatest sin is not the abuse, but talking about the abuse. Kids and parents who step forward to complain are crushed.”

  1. I am abhorred how religious institutions can abuse women and children and get away with it in this modern day and age. And then they have the gall to look down on atheists claiming we have no morals. Met geloofspronge moet ons deel neem aan hulle gruweldade. Nie maklik nie!

    Mens wonder hoe hierdie mense se koppe werk. The god meme is a sickness you don’t want to contract.

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    • Stem saam Savage. Wat veral opval is die dawerende stilte van gelowiges wanneer wandade in die naam van hul gode gepleeg word. Wanneer mens hul konfronteer kom die antwoord vinnig dat hulle dit ook verafsku. Maar hoekom dan die stilte? Hoekom kritiseer hui nie in die openbaar en met dieselfde venyn waarmee hul ateiste kritiseer nie? Deur stil te bly beskerm hul hul medegeloofspringers en is hul dus medepligtig. Maar al wat ons hoor van godiote is “ons is nie so nie” en “ons glo op die regte manier” en “ons kerk is die ware een” en “ware gelowiges sal nooit so iets doen nie”.

      Gelowiges is die grootste selfleuenaars op die planeet. Hul lieg vir hulself oor die bestaan van hul gode om bietjie suikerstroop oor hul bestaan op aarde te voeg. Hulle lieg dus vir hulself om selfsugtige redes. En het dan die vermetelheid om neer te kyk op diegene wat nie wil meedoen nie. Siek.

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  2. Klomp idiots wat Sondag in die kerk sit. Dan sit hulle nog parfuum aan en maak hulle self mooi. Hoe belaglik! Dalk lok hulle ‘n paar geeste.

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    • Tja, komende van iemand wat nie ligbulb kan spel nie! Ai, julle godiote neem “slaan-my-naam-met-‘n-plank” na nuwe hoogtes.

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    • Hoeveel godbots vat dit om ‘n ligbulb te vervang. Godbots hoef nie ‘n ligbulb te vervang nie – met hulle geloofspronge is hulle mos altyd in die lig.

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      • He,he, he.

        Savage ek ignoreer deesdae Jahannie se poste bloot omdat hy eerlikwaar nie enige aandag werd is nie. Wanneer die ironie egter so pragtig is soos sy laaste pos, kan ek myself nie keer nie. Wat ‘n nar is die outjie nie? Soos jy elders noem – hy antwoord niks en lewer geen bydrae. Van al die godiote wat al hier gepos het, is hy by verre die eenvoudigste. N rasegte ignoramus. Miskien gee ons hom te veel krediet – miskien is hy 14 jaar oud?

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        • Oksimoron Malies, in sielkunde 1 word daar genoem van die verskillende “sosiale klasse” en dat dit nie maklik is om te bepaal wat die oorsaak van die klasse is nie, soos “geld” – die “het” en die nie “het” van geld hoef nie noodwendig ‘n indikasie te wees nie. . . .ens.

          Nou het die konsep uit my onbewuste in my bewuste ingekom met ‘n woord wat na “iets” wys en dat dit dalk een bepalende factor is, en dit is – oppervlakkig – en al wat ek gedoen het is om jou kommentaar te lees, snaaks. . .?

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  3. Johan is jy ‘n pastorale sielkundige? Een van daai wat gay mense reguit kan bid, meantime is hy self skeef. En moet asseblief nou nie dink ek se jy is skeef nie. Ek noem net ‘n voorbeeld van iets wat werklik gebeur het in Amerika. Is jy ‘n aanhanger van Evangilism? Glo jy die aarde is net 6000 jaar oud? Dans jy met slange? Is jy bitter oor iets? Waarvoor veg jy so hard?

    Kindermolestering is verskriklik! So ook kindermishandeling. Dis eintlik dieselfde ding. Ek onthou toe ek ‘n kind was het hulle altyd by die skou die polisie tente gehad. Daar het hulle altyd prente gehad van kinders wat mishandel is. Dit was absoluut aaklig! ‘n Siek monster mishandel kinders! Kindermishandeling kom natuurlik voor in baie vorme. Die nuutste is boeliery. Kinders wat mekaar mishandel.

    Mense wat self kinders op skool het moet dit as ‘n ernstige probleem sien. Dis ook nie unlikely dat kinders mekaar seksueel sal molesteer nie. Dis sommer ook net iets wat ek wou noem. Dit hou glad nie verband met die vrae wat ek Johann daarbo gevra het nie. Ek noem maar net dat alle misverstande uit die weg geruim kan word.

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  4. Ja Adriaan ennige mishandeling teen enige person op enige vlak is nie ok nie, of dit nou mans vroumense oumense kinders of diere is dit maak vir my geen verskil nie.
    Die vraag is net – wat nou? – wat doen ons omtrent dit. Wat kan ons doen omtrent dit? Soos Mallies verklaar hy is nie verantwoordelik vir iemand anders se opvoeding nie, nou waarvoor is ons verantwoordelik?

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  5. Kindermishandeling sal nooit uitsterf nie, ouers is mos altyd reg, hulle kinders mag niks van hulle of vir hulle se nie. Nee wat kindermishandeling is hier om te bly. Solank mense dink hulle kinders is ‘n ekstensie van hulle self sal die nonsense aangaan. Mense maak hulle kinders kerk toe gaan van kleins af sonder dat hulle ‘n keuse het. As die kind nie stilsit in die kerk nie of nie wil gaan nie kry hy pak. Maar dis mos reg so, sekere mense beweer mos ouers het die reg om te doen wat hulle wil. As ek kinders gehad het dan het ek gewag tot hulle oud genoeg is om self te besluit of hulle wil kerk toe gaan of nie. As hulle wil gaan sal ek hulle vat, maar nie ten koste van my tyd of gerief nie. Ek self sal ook nie ‘n moer in daai plek sit nie.

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    • Adriaan jy het nog nie kinders nie, so jy het dit nog nie ervaar hoeveel liefde is daar van die ouer se kant af nie. ‘n Mens het jou kinders so lief dat jy alles en enigiets sal doen om hulle te “help” – om uiteindelik ‘n gelukkige en veilige lewe te hê.

      As jy dink en voel en glo dat jy nie vryheid gegee is om op jou eie te ontwikkel en teen jou eie pas nie, dan sal ek aanbeveel dat jy jou psige “reset” of “format” en dan weer van “voor” af begin, moet dit net nie “fake” nie, doen dit vir ‘n werklike ervaring, nie om ander te plesier nie, om die werlikheid van die “lewe” te ervaar – die lewe wat eintlik ‘n skeppings werk is, elke dag. Doen dit!

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      • Ek het nie gese dat ek nie die Vryheid gegee is nie, ek het dit gemention oordat dit werklik gebeur. Kinders moet die regte riglyne kry sodat hulle veilig kan grootword. Geloof is ‘n ander storie. Geloof is ‘n persoonlikke ding. Dit is ‘n kwessie van keuse. As dit vir die kind bedoel is sal die kind uitgaan en dit ervaar. Ek persoonlik het niks ervaar toe ek nog kerk toe gegaan het nie. Dit was maar net ‘n plek waar mense crowded rondgesit het en daar was ‘n predikant wat onsamehangend staan en babbel het. No magic!

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        • I went to the NG Kerk once when I attended Stellenbosch University. The screeching and the condemning from the dominee was a major turn off and I never went back. I could not understand why anyone would subject themselves to this kind of mistreatment voluntarily. We used to go to Sandy Bay and sunbathe kaalgat. One day a dominee turned up to give us grief so we threw him into the water and held him down until he was nice and soaked through. Hy’t lekker gespartel.

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        • I would have had the total shits if my parents had tried to drag me to church on Sundays, which they fortunately did not do. Back then, religious people did not hassle non-believers too much. There were some holy hannahs in the Stellenbosch koshuis, the kind the rest of us sneeringly called “toekomstige volksmoedertjies”. But, outside the churches, nobody told you you were a sinner and were going to go to hell. Nowadays every idiot with a succession of failed marriages behind his name takes it upon himself to tell others how “saved” he is, and that you have to be a sinner to find Jesus. If you’re not particularly a failure or sinner, by golly, the fundies will make you out to be one! I have found it useful to tell such a person that they are not going to heaven when they die, they are going straight back to where they came from. And the reason they talk so much about others is because the rest of us won’t be hearing them for a thousand years. It’s right there in Revelations.

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        • Help my dan net bietjie uit hier, jy is heel ok, al issues wat jy het, is met mense wat godsdiens op ander porbeer afdwing, en mense wat kinders (en seker diere ook) mishandel, en jou bydrae om die euwel te help bekamp is nou om hier saam met die atties te moun en teef oor alles wat verkeerd is in die wêreld.
          Jy skryf ook dat geloof is ‘n persoonlike ding en geloof is ‘n keuse,. . .( is dit net ‘n obserwasie wat jy gemaak het of verkondig jy dit as die heilige waarheid?)
          As jy dan “geloof” kies dan kan ek en jy mos kies wat ons “WIL” en as jou “wil” vry is dan kan jy mos jouself vrye keuse gee en ‘n “geloof” kies wat jou pas. . .?
          Dan sukkel ek om te bepaal waarom die keuse om te haat en te moun – is dit nou lekker?

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    • And then you get parents who beat each other up in front of the children and are surprised when their children are reluctant to get married or have children themselves. They think they have done something wonderful and are entitled to mess up their grandchildren’s lives. Having children is not a sign of accomplishment but society buys into it because it pays the dominee, the doctor and the dentist.

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  6. Most Jews, whether practising or not, are very OK people, you know. The ultra orthodox Jews in the above story are retards, throwbacks. They are in no way representative of Jews in general. In the same way, I’m quite ok with Christians, as along as they behave according to what they profess and don’t go around looking for trouble. Religion goes wrong when it is used to disguise hatred towards others which, even though it may be an outward expression of self hatred, does harm to society.

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      • Johann displays the kind of bigotry and ignorance that comes from not actually mixing with Jews. The motto, “Live and let live” escapes fundies which is why they make the most terrible neighbours, and then they are surprised that people avoid them like the plague.

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      • The jews today is not the same as Israelites of 2000 years ago, some people claim that only the people that stay behind when Israel was exiled, claim to be the judah tribe and that the rest of Israel disappeared, today the jews is trying more and more calling themselves Israelis instead of jews, mostly to manipulate the “world” to sympathize with them and their cause.
        Moly flip flop displays the kind of bigotry and ignorance that comes from not actually knowing anything about the Jews.

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        • Neither are the “Christians” of today the same as they were two thousand years ago! And so what if Jews call themselves Israelis today, they can do whatever they like in their own country, they earned it after all the crap they had to put up with from “Christians” like Johann.

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          • Holy, no point in reacting on Johannie’s comments. The guy is smoking something stronger than his socks. Notice how he is utterly incapable of following the thread of any debate. He waffles on in what can only be described as gutter-gibberish ……or perhaps he’s speaking in tongues! What a first class poephol.

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            • Ok ek kan sien dat ego onder stress is, uit idees uit en dan kan ek my indink dat dit ook maar moeilik is om so in die duister rond te tas, so ek sal jou eerder laat gaan . . .

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              • Johann, daar bestaan inrigtings waar ouens met jou probleem behandeling kan kry. Verslawing is geen skande nie hoor. Die vertrekpunt is egter erkenning van jou probleem. Sterkte met die pad vorentoe en mag die gode jou help in die stryd wat voorle.

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  7. There you have it again. Jews behaving like arseholes. Christians behaving like arseholes. Johann behaving like the arsehole that he is.

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      • Johann goes predictably sexist. You can spell it out, Johann. I’d call you a cunt myself, but you lack the depth and the charm.

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        • Charming. You sure came a long way from Sandy bay to where you are today, maybe you didn’t plan ahead, but the way you come across is someone full of hate and resentment, surrounded by all kinds of different holes – properly makes you feel very holy.
          What happened? No partner no jewellery no sex, no love? At your (st)age of life you should at least know what “life” is al about. Or part of it, or what is or was the purpose of Mollies existence?

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          • I have come to the conclusion that jewellery is mostly a waste of money because it gets stolen or the design goes out of fashion and you get next to nothing for it if you try to sell it. As for my love and sex life, that’s for me to know and for you to exercise your imagination on.

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            • Charming again. Jewellery does have it’s meaning, it makes one feel good, special, “alive”?, and even that “you’ve got it made”, and it’s surely a positive thing and something you can enjoy, but stealing it for non religious reasons are really sick, on the other hand most crimes are committed for non-religious reasons, from my perspective the majority of crimes are committed by non-believers. . .
              Nun the less I felt for you being robbed like that, but, if you talk about how you feel, what life is all about, what is the truth, who is right and who do you trust, what can you believe. . . . where do one start?

              Are you a happy chappie?

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              • You’re saying that jewellery can be stolen for religious reasons? What are you smoking?

                A lot of crimes, and especially slander. are committed by “believers”. My next door neighbours threatened to destroy my non-religious friend’s business reputation in this town if she did not get me to cooperate on their terms. They maintained that this is a Christian town, and I do not behave in a Christian way towards them, my neighbours. I was told via her, to take down the height of my wall so my neighbours can see into the back of my garden like they used to be able to. If I have nothing to hide, this should not be a problem for me. The neighbour’s wife is to be made welcome in my house any time she feels like coming over.

                I am married to a man whose profession obliges him to travel, to work in the towns or the bundu as his work demands. I got tired of moving around, my husband doesn’t have long until retirement, so we decided to buy a house here. Convenient to Joburg as well as Durban. I was perfectly happy living in this town until I made the huge mistake of buying next to a pair of psychopathic fundies. They have done everything they possibly can to make my life difficult.

                The wife does not work because she suffers from chronic and severe depression. She does absolutely nothing all day except look for trouble with her neighbours. Her husband was put on early pension at the bank he worked for because he harassed and falsely accused female employees of theft. They couldn’t wait to see his back. Since then he has battled to keep a job. His first wife dumped him and their two small children long ago. He blames women for all his troubles and goes out of his way to cause trouble for women who live on their own. It is his punishment for the ex wife he couldn’t punish. He would like to be my boss with his wife carrying out his instructions. He sees this as perfectly legitimate, his right to check up on me when my husband is not here. The friend who was threatened with having her reputation destroyed is a long time divorcee who raised her children on her own after she found out her husband was buggering around. She tries to keep religion out of her life, but that does not mean the fundies will leave her in peace.

                In any other country where religion and Christianity are not taken seriously these neighbours would find themselves on the end of a restraining order. I am advised to just “ignore” it. I do my best to ignore it, then I find out they’ve been saying nasty things about me and they are hell bent on pestering the life out of me.

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                • “You’re saying that jewellery can be stolen for religious reasons” Exactly. One thing you can’t blame religion for.

                  Neighbour out of hell. What would be the prognosis?

                  If ignoring does’nt help try something different, if I may, put a poster on you front door or on your wall or where they can see it – with some scripture: eg

                  But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.

                  And have some fun!

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                  • I’m going to have fun, for sure! My husband is back next week for three weeks. The Christmas tree goes up tomorrow. It’s really a pagan tradition but I like the cheerfulness and the gift wrapped presents underneath. Going to the nativity play at the church next door on the other side this evening. They have real live animals, it’s really quite something. They’re Franciscans.

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                  • I have tried the “soft answer turneth away wrath” on the pig next door but it only made him squeal louder. So I keep a piece of lead piping next to the front door. If he makes the mistake of coming anywhere near my front door I am going to moer him. I am going to donner him, and donner him hard, so that the damage shows. There are a number of women in this town who would be glad to see him limping with a pair of black eyes and bruises all over his body.

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                • “A lot of crimes, and especially slander. are committed by “believers”” . . . ? Sorry I cannot agree, I’ve taken a lot of “Slander” from the peanut gallery, so I don’t think your statement is the “heilige waarheid”

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                  • There’s a difference between fair comment and slander. If I call someone an idiot for parking across two parking bays, for example, to call that person an idiot is fair comment. If I went around your neighbourhood using your real name saying you were a thief and a paedophile, that would be slander. Slander unfairly affects your status in your community. If my neighbour goes around saying that my husband has deserted me and is too stupid to divorce me, then that is slander because it causes me embarrassment. Slander is unforgivable because once you have damaged someone’s name the rumours are out there, they can’t be taken back.

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                    • I thought this is a virtual community and the slander that I’ve recieved affects my status in this community and some of my “neighbours” are really acting up, they think they know it all and when I asked them questions they tell me that I’m closely related to a certain animal, or they say I’m one of those group of humans that are stupid who does’nt kwow anything, but they don’t say at what age you are old enough to be clever.
                      I “moved” into this neigbourhood because these guys appear to be so intelligent, full of confidence, sure of knowing what life is all about, and I also want to “know” but they are unwilling to help, they say it’s not their responsiblility.

                      Sometimes I get the feeling that they are reactionaries, they just want to “show” or tell each other how awfull life on earth is, not willing to change, it’s too much fun slander everyone else and I think that this slander makes them feel good about themselves, it’s almost like drug addition, they are on the lookout for someone to pounce on to get their fix.

                      Life is happening to us for the first time, this has never happened before, we have cellphones and a information at our fingertips, and clever ouks in white coats who are “fly fucking” physical matter over and over again and then they tell us the found a “constant” but then someone else comes forward with something else and they have to re-think everything – they also have to earn a living you know.

                      So I am conscience of being alive but they tell me it has’nt been proven yet and it can’t be my imagination because threre’s no proof of that either.

                      Like

                  • Yes but if you want to comment on a website like this, you should know your reception will not be the same as if you walked into a Methodist bookshop.

                    Like

                    • Haha yes you’re right, but I expect a little more substance, I thought they are suppose to be free thinkers but it turn out that they are the same as your neighbour, they are caugth, like the woman next door to you, in their own little world with no room to manuever.

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              • The walls I had extended are legal height. If they touch that wall, I sue. Needless to say, the neighbours did not pay a cent, nor did they pay for a section of wall the wife pulled over onto their side by taking in laundry and hanging it from a hook on the boundary wall. I paid for everything, which is not right in their eyes. They are so radical that the wife is not allowed to shop for groceries or even buy her own underwear. The husband buys the groceries and if she needs clothes he takes her to the shops and lets her have what he deems fit. She wears a lot of strange men’s clothing. The wife puts on such a holy face that she fools a lot of people.The only people who suss her out immediately are gay men. They call her “the bag lady”. As soon as I had a problem in this street, they knew who was behind it.

                Like

                • In “The road less travelled” there is a case study of the same story, eintlik nie ‘n “case study” nie, maar een van sy pasiente was in dieselfde booitjie, met die domineerende man, but stil a good read and more fun if you know hear “fears”.

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                  • Janee, domineering doesn’t do it for me. The little pipsqueak earns a fraction of what I do turning on my computer for an hour a day. If they have hassles with that they must move to another neighbourhood. I’m not going anywhere.

                    Like

                  • Book written by a shrink. I might dip into in on Kindle. Beats me why people do this but there must be some kind of pay off. My neighbour’s wife should make a wooden cross and get her husband to nail her to it. He should put the whole effort up on the raised wooden deck at the back of their garden so that the Catholic church next door can see that he can do anything better than they can do.

                    The woman is hell bent on her own frustration. She takes out hideous cacti at the front of her garden, plants lilies there – in a corner, which is already difficult to get at – and then she puts the ugly cacti back as a border around the lilies. Her garden looks horrible, like the garden of a maniac but without the inspiration. She digs holes all over the front lawn and plants miniature marigolds there. I haven’t the heart to tell her miniature marigolds best belong in borders or in a vegetable garden to keep bugs away.She would tell me some depressing story about how she needs her back garden to dry laundry because she can’t hang laundry from the boundary wall that fell down anymore. The wall I replaced and that she is now dead scared to hang laundry from again. Everything is always somebody else’s fault. This is secondhand domineering behaviour also known as passive aggressive.

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                    • Shame I empathize with her, I don’t think she values herself very high, go over to her and give her a affectionate hug, she’ll wet her pants!

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                    • The whole argument started when she tried to inflict her weird, self-hating religion onto me. A man might feel sorry for her, but the novelty of her acquired helplessness soon wears off and you are left with a passive-aggressive turnip. Her husband is so fed up with her moaning that he tells her her only chance of a happy life will be in the afterlife.

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                    • Johann, if people act as if they’re helpless, it doesn’t mean they are. She had a job but gave it up to stay at home. Now they’re predictably short of money and she’s spaced out on drugs for “depression”. I hear comments via third parties about how I spend my money, how they would have used cheaper paint and less labour if they were to do up their own house. Which begs the question: so why don’t they fix up their house and show everyone how it should be done? It’s. All. About. The. Money. Begging cap, Johann. Begging cap.

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                    • Proverbs 14:21

                      Those who despise their neighbours are sinners, but happy are those who are kind to the needy.

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                  • I don’t understand people who are forever rearranging their gardens. Don’t they plan what they want to achieve and get advice on trees, shrubs and flowers when they start with the whole effort? There are hundreds and hundreds of books on landscaping in the shops and articles on the internet, yet you get people who plant cacti in their Natal garden. Cacti belong in the Karoo and should be allowed, like the Khoi and the San, to stay there. You get aunties – it’s usually a woman in her fifties – buying truckloads of plants to replant what you can only suppose must be massive borders. What did they do with the previous plants? Did the dassies eat them? A garden should be planted once, and thereafter composted and watered.

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        • Hoe het daai hippie van die sestigers dit gestel, joodse kêrel “Me, I’m just on the road heading for another joint. . .♪. . ♪” en ‘ We always feel the some, we just study it from a different point of view”
          En ” once upon a time you dressed so fine,
          threw the bums a dime – in your prime. . . . .
          . . . . . how does it feel? . . . to be on your own . . .♪. . .a complete unknown , , , , , like a rolling stone?

          Like

  8. My “Christian” neighbour poisoned a neighbour’s cat because the neighbour wasn’t “Christian” in her view. A “Christian” “friend” slandered a Muslim friend because he didn’t share her beliefs. No wonder Muslims have fuck all respect for Christians.

    Like

  9. A lot of fundies have issues and projected frustrations with penetrative sex. So do flashers and rapists. It’s the only way they can get any attention.

    Like

  10. The whole argument started when she tried to inflict her weird, self-hating religion onto me. A man might feel sorry for her, but the novelty of her acquired helplessness soon wears off and you are left with a passive-aggressive turnip. Her husband is so fed up with her moaning that he tells her her only chance of a happy life will be in the afterlife.

    Like

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    Like

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